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Wildkyss
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 Do we live forever?
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Most people I've asked think the Consciousness lives on forever, though I wonder if anyone has a theory on how or why one would be around forever, or if you even believe that at all. Also, does anyone know what a soul/consciousness is made up of?
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 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:55 am
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Nanara
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I believe that the soul pure energy, and is created to learn and grow, once it's learnt and grown enough it returns to the infinate divine and becomes one with this infinate. I also believe that incarnating can sometimes damage a soul enough that it can break up into nothing and return to the infinate to be remade into another soul that will learn and grow with each incarnation.
But, well, that's my belief, not my science. So I can't say whether that's what really happens or not. Only that it's my belief based on what I remember from my own beginnings and see other peoples ends, which, unfortunately are rather fuzzy on the detail.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:14 am
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Wildkyss
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Hm interesting prespective, I do believe souls sometimes deteriorate. I do have a question though, what is the "infinate divine"?
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:14 am
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anonymousguy
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Just some stuff to help with the ongoing discussion 
From the scientific standpoint, the consciousness is still one big question mark. We aren't yet able to determine where in the brain/nervous system the consciousness reside, the same thing that also happens with long term memory. Unlike other brain functions like perception, orientation, short term memory and even logical thinking, that have precise brain areas, the consciousness doesn't seem to have a location. While some theorists say that the prefrontal cortex is responsible for the consciousness, people that underwent a lobotomy still had a consciousness.
Even the definition of consciousness is still on debate. Is it the self-awareness of your existance? Is it the ability to make choices? Is it the highly complex behavior pattern found in societies? We honestly don't know, as some of those characteristics can also be found in other animals, like dolphins, monkeys and even regular pets, like a dog and a cat.
So, we have to dwelve in the philosophy area, and I'm afraid there is nothing much we can do.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:03 pm
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Luinbariel
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Hmm, I guess it's kind of a big question mark all accross the board then, eh?
I don't know much about it either, but I personally tend to think that we don't live on forever, as ara said. At some point, our consciousness ceases to be, whether in the way she detailed, or in some other unknown way.
I couldn't imagine anyone who would want to be around forever, either... it would just be so tiring, after awhile. It would be like a super long fall day, in the end, for me... cold, and you can hardly keep your eyes open. But there's a nice warm bed waiting for me over there... The soul gets in, and never wakes up.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:02 pm
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Wraith
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Personally, I think that no consciousness, being, planet, dimension, whatever can be "forever". Can you imagine if we lived forever? That, in itself, would be like hell. Souls (or spirits, or essences) must have come from somewhere, so therefore somewhere along the line they must go back to where they were created. However, that "somewhere" also had to come from somewhere. So, is that eternal? Again, in my opinion, I doubt I will ever know, until that day comes for me, and then, perhaps I won't even be aware of that fact. What happens to that consciousness after it is absorbed back into its form of creation? Some say that it becomes one with the "divine" as 'Ara said, or back to the chaos from which all is created, or what have you, and then another soul is born from that. But can you remember what it was like being one with the ultimate consciousness? Can one remember what it was like before it returned to its beginnings? Questions like these are endless.
So, in the meantime, I guess I shall be content to wonder on it all.
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:47 am
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Naki
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i know that i know nothing... i will find it out sometime anyway... :}
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:23 pm
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Tyhnu
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Actually, we can't really know anything for sure, so it doesn't matter all that much what we believe as long as it works for you.
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:11 pm
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Vivian
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Okay. I realize that this post has been dead for like- 2 years. But I just wanted to stir up the embers a little bit... and I just wanted to put something out there after reading this thread.
How can we know? Technically the *soul* or consciousness, or whichever, isn't a spirit ball of silver or gold, rather just a term we made for what we are, what drives us on, other than our heart and brain. So with that said, we cant exactly take out a *soul* and cut it open and see what's inside. We only can keep guessing at why. We have made up some things like Religion, and God, and Heaven, and Hell, for where it came from. But alone, that theory can easily be thwarted (I am NOT trying to say that it doesn't exist... I am just saying that it cant be physically proven.) Okay. For example. The earth and the universe. They came from somewhere, right? So did everything else. But how, exactly? We will never be able to prove anything like that, anything that far away, that beyond, with science. So we make theories. Theories that will never be proven right, and never be proven wrong. Just like heaven and hell. Just like the center of the earth, just like our very own soul's existence. Which puts me back on track. We will never be able to know if the soul goes on forever, we will never be able to know if the consciousness is even ... well... conscious. If the soul did go on forever, how would we know? We dont have access to memories that far back, because that isn't the way our mind works. We are forgetful creatures. So how do we know that the soul cant go on? Technically, if the soul is energy, then every single human being on this very planet, every animal, every insect, has lived since the dawn of time. "Energy cannot be created or destroyed." In that sense, we can neither be created or destroyed. Only our physical being can.
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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:25 pm
_________________ Sometimes we have to fall to know who to trust. Sometimes we have to jump off the ledge just to wake up.
Sometimes, we are alone, whether we know it or not... 
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Miniar
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The way I see it, nothing can really ever be truly completely destroyed as in.. wiped from existence,.. not even our physical bodies. They do die, yes. They stop being "our physical bodies" yes, but the matter it's composed of will not be "unmade", It'll change, be re-used and recycled by the world we live in. In every flower in every garden is a molecule or a sub-molecular fragment of matter that previously existed as a part of something else. An animal? A man? A rock? A star? I don't know.. but that matter didn't come from nowhere, and in the end, when the flower has gone, that small fragment will become a part of something else.
Everything changes constantly.
If you take an orange and cut it into four pieces, those four pieces can never become the orange they were before you cut them. So in cutting the orange, the "whole orange" that you used to have has been "destroyed" and doesn't exist anymore.
Take the two concepts and put them together.
Yes, souls can be destroyed. Yes consciousnesses can be undone.
No, energy is never "destroyed" but if it stops being what it was, then what it was doesn't exist anymore.
I was created. Not out of nothing, but out of pre-existing energy that which was gathered together, given structure and form. My soul was "built".
If the energy I call my soul were to be pulled apart, and would stop functioning as a soul, then my soul would be destroyed, even if the energy itself still exists. Same as with that molecule in the flower in the yard.
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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:38 pm
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Tsukikage
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Actually, I personally agree with Miniar on this one, that I do. One of the theories that I am aware of regarding the Big Bang, for instance, is that something cannot be made out of nothing. The atoms or electrons or energy that made up, say, a star halfway across the galaxy tens of thousands, if not millions of year ago, may end up being the same exact atoms, electrons, or whatever that is in your sandwich that you eat for lunch.
Just as Miniar says, everything changes--there is a constant change in the Universe. In fact, that is probably the only true Universal constant, that everything changes. In that sense, the energy of our souls may end up being something completely different tens of thousands of years from now. So, in this way I think we never are truly "destroyed" but we will definitely change.
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:02 pm
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Jonathan
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To keep this as short as possible I’d just say …Congratulations ! Your Immortal …!
I’m actually impressed with the answers here , and I have to pretty much agree on the same lines , I have a big ass article laying around someplace that I wrote years ago , I’m sure I posted it on another forum , big bang , multiverse , the crunch , souls , god …all that kinda thing *nods*
Dam…sounds like a six demon bag …
But I’ll give you something to think about …
The human body is actually designed to stop working ( die ) after a certain amount of time , by our very existence as humans , we’re actually supposed to die by design….why?
Doesn’t it seem a little odd ? , its something to ponder …
But just look at it this way , if death as a concept means the end of self , then the concept itself is flawed .
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:47 pm
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Vivian
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yup. Miniar, that actually makes sense.
Jonathan, yours does too.
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:10 pm
_________________ Sometimes we have to fall to know who to trust. Sometimes we have to jump off the ledge just to wake up.
Sometimes, we are alone, whether we know it or not...
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Rowadanr
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| anonymousguy wrote: |
Just some stuff to help with the ongoing discussion
From the scientific standpoint, the consciousness is still one big question mark. We aren't yet able to determine where in the brain/nervous system the consciousness reside, the same thing that also happens with long term memory. Unlike other brain functions like perception, orientation, short term memory and even logical thinking, that have precise brain areas, the consciousness doesn't seem to have a location. While some theorists say that the prefrontal cortex is responsible for the consciousness, people that underwent a lobotomy still had a consciousness.
Even the definition of consciousness is still on debate. Is it the self-awareness of your existance? Is it the ability to make choices? Is it the highly complex behavior pattern found in societies? We honestly don't know, as some of those characteristics can also be found in other animals, like dolphins, monkeys and even regular pets, like a dog and a cat.
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The theory I have recently alighted upon and adopted shows conciousness working on a dual-teired, recursive model. As Stuart & Cohen put it, "As well as detecting a banana, it can think about detecting a banana".
On a reductionist level the brain is a network of nerve cells sending each other incredibly complex but ultimately meaningless messages - like ants scurrying around inside an anthill. On another level, they are an integrated self - the anthill as a personality in its own right.
To elaborate, I'll horribly paraphrase Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach. Upon detecting the approach of an anteater, the the ants go into a panic - they change their actions. To the "mind" of the anthill, which operates on the emergent level, this registers as the knowledge of the anteater's arrival.
The link between the ants and the greater "anthilligence" is emergent - felicitiously, it operates across what has been termed 'Ant Country'. The same action means one thing for the ants, but something quite different, and transcendent, for The Hill. Replace the "anthilligence" by yourself - your self, the 'you' that you feel is experiencing your thoughts - and ants by brain cells, and you're contemplating the connection between mind and brain.
It seems that the medium in which conciousness is suspended is the metaphysical world many of those on this board, myself included, have mucked about in on one level or another. What intrigues me is the interrelation between the two media.
Credit is due to Ian Stuart, Jack Cohen and Douglas Hofstadter for introducing me to the above concepts and whom I have execcively paraphrased to get my point across
| Nanara wrote: |
| the soul is pure energy |
Sorry, I cannae read the words "pure energy" without chuckling a bit, since it's a bit of a redundant term as there's no known such thing as impure energy, and since matter is simply large amounts of, for want of a better term, "compressed" energy, there's nothing that isn't made of "pure energy"
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:56 pm
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"The Truth isn't always beauty, but the hunger for it is."
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Nanara
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| Rowadanr wrote: |
| Nanara wrote: |
| the soul is pure energy |
Sorry, I cannae read the words "pure energy" without chuckling a bit, since it's a bit of a redundant term as there's no known such thing as impure energy, and since matter is simply large amounts of, for want of a better term, "compressed" energy, there's nothing that isn't made of "pure energy" |
*chuckles* XP lol That post was two years ago, gimme a break! XD
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:29 am
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