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Eternity
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 "Measuring" Abilites
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A thought occured to me recently.
Usually when someone claims that they have an ability, someone else will ask if it's been tested/measured/documented/etc.
In an experiment of sorts, if it happens the majority of times, then that person may actually have it. Or at least this is my understanding of it- feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.
But I was thinking; relating it to a "real world" scenario. I attempt to play basketball sometimes, but let's face it, I'm pretty bad at it. If someone were to test me on my ability to make a basket, it probably wouldn't go well. Out of ten times, I might make 3. Definitely not the majority. But on the other hand, I do have the ability to make a basket, it's just underdeveloped.
Could the same thing apply for testing with abilities that are more difficult to measure (ie empathy)? What are your thoughts on this?
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 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:41 am
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Strangeling
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Definitely. "Testing" abilities like empathy in such a way seem pretty meaningless when it's done by people who have little experience using or controlling the ability. Now, if somebody claims to be a living mood ring who can read innermost fears at will, that's a different matter.
This is one reason why I haven't listed any abilities on my profile (the other being that the form doesn't seem to like me); I may believe that I am an empath, but so long as I can't focus, control or even turn off the ability there is no way that I could test it with any accuracy.
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:08 am
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nijijing
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I think you are probably right about this.
In a way I believe a lot of these powers are being underestimated (maybe not the right word I'm thinking of..) and put on most peoples profiles so easily. But I wonder how all of these people know they have these powers, did they experience one of these powers just once or twice in their lifetimes or are most of these people really blessed with so many powers that they can control or experience almost all the time? I don't find that so realistic. I don't think it's such a common thing to have empathy... Is it?
Then again I don't know how many times you need to experience whatever power in order to consider yourself gifted with it...
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:17 am
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Strangeling
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| nijijing wrote: |
I don't think it's such a common thing to have empathy... Is it?
Then again I don't know how many times you need to experience whatever power in order to consider yourself gifted with it... |
Empathy is, as I understand it, a fairly common phenomenon amongst humans. In my experience it's a constant thing that can be restrained or covered up but never actually goes away, like your sense of sight or hearing. How "gifted" any given person is has less to do with how many "times" they've had experiences with it and more to do with how strong those experiences are. If it feels like you are somebody you're talking to in some way, that's a pretty good indicator. Being unable to drown out the background "noise" enough to determine what your own emotions are is another.
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:36 am
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Seraphyna
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"Testing" an ability is only pointless if not enough data is considered. Going along with the basketball example, if someone only looked at you try to make a basket 10 times, they might see you make none or only 1-2...leading them to believe that you're basket-making skills are either non-existant, chance, or highly underdeveloped. However, if they looked at you try to make a basket 1,000 times and compared that data to 500 out of 1,000 (since you have a 50-50 shot at it...you either make it or you don't) if the test data is not different from 500/1,000 then you're ability is average. If it is significantly higher (which would require statistics) then you could say that you have a developed basket-making skill. If it was significantly lower (again requiring statistics) then you could say that your basket-making skill is underdeveloped.
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:11 am
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Eternity
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| Seraphyna wrote: |
| "Testing" an ability is only pointless if not enough data is considered. Going along with the basketball example, if someone only looked at you try to make a basket 10 times, they might see you make none or only 1-2...leading them to believe that you're basket-making skills are either non-existant, chance, or highly underdeveloped. However, if they looked at you try to make a basket 1,000 times and compared that data to 500 out of 1,000 (since you have a 50-50 shot at it...you either make it or you don't) if the test data is not different from 500/1,000 then you're ability is average. If it is significantly higher (which would require statistics) then you could say that you have a developed basket-making skill. If it was significantly lower (again requiring statistics) then you could say that your basket-making skill is underdeveloped. |
*nods* I understand that.
In a type of setting in which metaphysical abilities were to be measured/tested, it seems that it would be nearly impossible to "prove" that you have an ability, unless it is very developed. At this point, I've gathered that not too many people accept the possible existence of these abilites, which I can only assume is because there haven't been any/many "proven" cases.
For example, if we did the empathy test that was mentioned in another thread: have people watch some emotion-provoking movies, then one by one have each person come into a room with the person being tested, and have the person being tested try and determine what the other's emotions are. If the person did this 1,000 times, and only got the emotion correct 200 times, then I doubt that it would be accepted as an ability- it would probably be written off as coincidence. (Again, this is based on the very little that I think I somewhat know, so I could be way off the mark here. If that's the case, please correct me.)
But comparing that to the basketball thing- Yes, I do have the ability to make a basket. Not very good chances, but I can do it. So why would the responses be different? Why would I have the ability in one scenario, but not the other? Obviously, both "abilities" are underdeveloped.
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:44 am
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Mike (Clodaus)
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This is addressed in the field of Parapsychology. Essentially, due to variations in human performance and such unlikely odds of actually demonstrating an ability on an observable scale, it relies almost entirely on statistics. The experiments are highly refined and developed over the past couple of centuries due to the constant fire of skepticism. And, of course, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
Dean Radin does an excellent job at introducing readers to the subject and the common experiments (many of which very high odds against chance): http://www.deanradin.com/
These links also contain a bit of information, the first of which is a must see for those interested.
http://otherkincommunity.net/topic1657 - Dean Radin introduces Parapsychology and goes into a number of common experiments and their results
http://otherkincommunity.net/topic2350 - contains some experiments and their results (original published articles and research)
In the end, however, Parapsychologists generally deal with the "average" population - no training. There have been few experiments I've read that do include those with training, and they were discussed in the second book, Entangled Minds, with highly impressive results.
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:41 am
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Seraphyna
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Entangled Minds = win. Gary Schwartz has set up some interesting experiments to test mediumship and other "abilities" in his books two...even came up with a triple blind study to test mediumship. His books are The Afterlife Experiments (focusing on mediumship) and The G.O.D. Experiments (focusing on the existance of a Guiding, Organizing, Designing process in the universe).
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:04 am
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Eternity
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I'll look into it when I have more time, but I read both posts (didn't click the links...tired z.z)
I think I've found the problem. It's not in the testing, it's in the censorship.
Thanks for posting, Clody. Everyone else, too! 
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:23 am
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Mike (Clodaus)
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| Eternity wrote: |
| I think I've found the problem. It's not in the testing, it's in the censorship. |
That's defiantly a contributing factor. While experimental results are difficult and in the past haven't been very well developed, those experiments that do stump even the skeptics are not often reported by the common media. Meanwhile, those experiments that show that such phenomenon must not exist, are reported. Dean goes into this a lot as well in his books - part of the underlying "Taboo" he describes.
I'll also have to look into the books you mentioned, Sera.
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:15 pm
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Archer
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| Seraphyna wrote: |
| "Testing" an ability is only pointless if not enough data is considered. Going along with the basketball example, if someone only looked at you try to make a basket 10 times, they might see you make none or only 1-2...leading them to believe that you're basket-making skills are either non-existant, chance, or highly underdeveloped. However, if they looked at you try to make a basket 1,000 times and compared that data to 500 out of 1,000 (since you have a 50-50 shot at it...you either make it or you don't) if the test data is not different from 500/1,000 then you're ability is average. If it is significantly higher (which would require statistics) then you could say that you have a developed basket-making skill. If it was significantly lower (again requiring statistics) then you could say that your basket-making skill is underdeveloped. |
This of itself would be pretty irrelevant, though - you would also want to compare the basket-making abilities of the test subject to complete novices (matched for age, height, and fitness) and professional players (also matched for age, height, and fitness).
| Eternity wrote: |
| For example, if we did the empathy test that was mentioned in another thread: have people watch some emotion-provoking movies, then one by one have each person come into a room with the person being tested, and have the person being tested try and determine what the other's emotions are. If the person did this 1,000 times, and only got the emotion correct 200 times, then I doubt that it would be accepted as an ability- it would probably be written off as coincidence. (Again, this is based on the very little that I think I somewhat know, so I could be way off the mark here. If that's the case, please correct me.) |
As mentioned above - key to any test like this is a control group.
If a person who claims empathy gets the emotion right 200 times out of 1,000 - that of itself says absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, if a control group get the emotion right 100 out of 1,000 times - that shows the person who claims empathy is significantly more aware of emotions than the control group. Obviously the experiment would also require the test subject to have no contact with the movie watchers - if the test subject can see, hear, or even small the people they are trying to read then there is no way to know if their identification of emotion comes from a psychic ability of empathy or from completely mundane empathy, ie the awareness of another person's emotions due to observing their behaviour.
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:46 am
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