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Nanara
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Luinbariel
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I'll have to take a good look through these, they sound interesting... Thanks ara!
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 Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:57 am
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subspace5000
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Re: Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
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I hate to be the one to say it, but a few of these links are just...well, bad to say the least.
The most blatant one is terra.es. The science in it is just wrong - diseases are not just "the manifestation of imbalances in our bodies". I accept that attitude affects the rate of recovery but it is not, as this site is suggesting, a cause of disease (unless we're talking about hypochondria, of course  ) .
reiki-research, while obviously biased, is better. One thing it fails to do however is cross-reference its findings with the conditions of the patients in each group. Both mental and physical conditions are listed, and I personally find it hard to believe that a physical condition (eg: fractures and fluid) could be corrected in this manner.
As for reiki.org...ok, just glancing through I didn't find anything wrong there. A few cited sources would have helped though.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:58 pm
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Nanara
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Re: Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
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The resources were merely for reading and picking through at people's conveniance. It was never my intention to use these as perfect proof of Reiki, more as interesting things to read. There has been a lot of statistical analysis of the effects of Reiki, and they are very surprising, and pretty inarguable. And anyone who wants to come to NZ and test Reiki out with me in as strict a conditions as they wish, are very welcome, I'm pretty sold on it's effectiveness, especially as it's not only healed a lot of clients, it's also healed a lot of things in my own life/body.
I still haven't found the stuff about the other Reiki research that isn't about it's effectiveness but what it actually does in the context of scientifically measured effects (unless it's hidden in all that stuff - I didn't have the time to read all of it in depth).
As to the comment about the:
| Quote: |
| The science in it is just wrong - diseases are not just "the manifestation of imbalances in our bodies". |
A lot of alternative healing art practitioners do not have the same knowledge of the body as "science" does. So they describe health and disease in a different way. It's an analogy. Something doesn't have to be physically described using medical terms to have a use. Think about it. Depression, for example, it is an imbalance. An imbalance of neurotransmitters and various chemicals in the brain to produce the symptoms of depression. Same with many other psychological and physiological conditions. The pain of a broken bone is an imbalance, there are too many nerve signals to the brain and too many other chemicals associated with pain in the body. If you're looking at the literal meaning of "imbalance" from a purely specific way of viewing this statement, of course it's not going to seem remotely useful. But think of it as a story to describe something physical. If I don't know anything about all the delicate chemical balances in the brain, how am I going to describe depression (or any other condition for that matter) in a medical way? So they describe it in ways that make sense to them.
I also don't think that the medical sciences know everything of every condition, there very well could be other factors involved that we currently do not have the scientific knowledge to outline. And if you don't believe me, go ask a neurologist if we know everything about how the brain works. Ask them where memory is stored.. that'll get an interesting response.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:13 pm
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subspace5000
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Re: Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
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| Nanara wrote: |
A lot of alternative healing art practitioners do not have the same knowledge of the body as "science" does. So they describe health and disease in a different way. It's an analogy. Something doesn't have to be physically described using medical terms to have a use. Think about it. Depression, for example, it is an imbalance. An imbalance of neurotransmitters and various chemicals in the brain to produce the symptoms of depression. |
...which is why I suggested that research into reiki should have been split between mental conditions and other conditons. Oh, and why did you place science in quotation marks?
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| The pain of a broken bone is an imbalance, there are too many nerve signals to the brain and too many other chemicals associated with pain in the body. |
And last time I checked, it was a much better idea to actually have the bone sugically repaired than to simply try to dull the pain.
| Quote: |
I also don't think that the medical sciences know everything of every condition, there very well could be other factors involved that we currently do not have the scientific knowledge to outline. And if you don't believe me, go ask a neurologist if we know everything about how the brain works. Ask them where memory is stored.. that'll get an interesting response. |
I'm fairly certain that the medical sciences have a good understanding of physical conditions. Psychology seems to be what you are talking about. Again, you arn't distinguishing between physical desease and psychological disorders.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:40 am
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Nanara
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Re: Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
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| subspace5000 wrote: |
| And last time I checked, it was a much better idea to actually have the bone sugically repaired than to simply try to dull the pain. |
At no point did I ever say that Reiki should replace medicine. It is a complimentary practise. That is one of the first rules you're taught as a Reiki healer, that Reiki is not intended to replace medicine, and if it is discovered that a person may have a condition that's serious or needs medical attension it is highly suggested to recommend to a client that they go and seek a doctor or specialist. Reiki is in addition to other forms of medicine and healing. If someone has cancer, I'm not going to tell them I can cure them and don't bother with the doctors and surgens, that would be gross negligence at best, murder at worst. And if you ever come across a Reiki healer who does claim this kind of thing run the hell away from them, they're obviously not fully trained and very dangerous.
I put "science" in quote marks because everyone seems to have a different idea of what science is. I ment it inclusive of conventional medicine and psychological medicine.
As to the psychology and phsyiology splitting. Depression, as in Clinical Depression, as in a diagnosis of a depressive disorder is chemical, it's biological. There is common place "depression", what most say when they are feeling down or sad about something. And then there is medical depression, which although is covered by the mental health departments of hospitals, is in fact a physiological disorder. Clinical depression is in no way just "in the mind", it's not something that can be "gotten over" any more than a broken bone can be. It takes time and the correct forms of treatment to heal depression and other treatable "mental" disorders. They are in no way "psychosomatic" in the derrogitory context of it being some stupid game people play or easily fixed with a jab of reality. If you'd like to argue that, I'm sure you're very welcome to make an appointment with a psychiatrist to ask them, and they'll ablige you with outlines of the physiological conditions behind certain "mental" disorders. Psychological disorders are physiological, only you can't take an asprin and put a bandaid on a psychological disorder, because it's literally in the brain and in the chemicals within in the body.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:25 am
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Luinbariel
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I heart wikipedia... According to it's definition,
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| Reiki (霊気 or レイキ, Reiki? IPA: /ˈreɪkiː/) is a form of spiritual practice,[1] used as a complementary therapy,[2] proposed for the treatment of physical, emotional, and mental diseases." |
So, there is definitely the complimentary part. And, even in the area of the article devoted to criticism, you find the same information;
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| Some Reiki practitioners [weasel words]encourage their clients to consult a medical doctor for serious conditions, stating that Reiki can be used to complement conventional medicine. |
All in all, it's not a bad article, though it also doesn't have any research or anything to go along with it. It at least seems to lay things out in a way that's understandable from both sides. It also seems to have referenced a huge number of books and articles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki that's the article, for whomsoever would like to look at it. I'm sure you know how to use google, people, just posting it for convenience.
Interestingly enough, while the practice itself is ancient, the title "reiki" was actually developed quite recently. I didn't know that....
And just for kicks, here's what the dictionary says about it.
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Definition: a type of ancient healing involving gentle massage therapy and deep relaxation; also written Reiki, also called Reiki system, [Reiki therapy], Usui method, Usui system, Usui Reiki
Etymology: Japanese rei 'universal energy' + ki 'life force'; developed in the early 1900's by Mikao Usui in Japan |
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:22 pm
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subspace5000
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Re: Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
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| Nanara wrote: |
| subspace5000 wrote: |
| And last time I checked, it was a much better idea to actually have the bone sugically repaired than to simply try to dull the pain. |
At no point did I ever say that Reiki should replace medicine. It is a complimentary practise. That is one of the first rules you're taught as a Reiki healer, that Reiki is not intended to replace medicine, and if it is discovered that a person may have a condition that's serious or needs medical attension it is highly suggested to recommend to a client that they go and seek a doctor or specialist. Reiki is in addition to other forms of medicine and healing. If someone has cancer, I'm not going to tell them I can cure them and don't bother with the doctors and surgens, that would be gross negligence at best, murder at worst. And if you ever come across a Reiki healer who does claim this kind of thing run the hell away from them, they're obviously not fully trained and very dangerous. |
Well, you have alot more sense that the site you're trying to defend. I've just had an idea - since you're a Reiki healer, why not post some of your experiences?
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| I put "science" in quote marks because everyone seems to have a different idea of what science is. I ment it inclusive of conventional medicine and psychological medicine. |
Conventional science, in other words. I realise you might not agree with everything scientists state at the moment, but you actually have to disprove the current theories rather than just ignore them.
I'm pretty sure there have been peer-reviewed experiments into reiki though, so I might try to find them later.
| Quote: |
| As to the psychology and phsyiology splitting. Depression, as in Clinical Depression, as in a diagnosis of a depressive disorder is chemical, it's biological. There is common place "depression", what most say when they are feeling down or sad about something. And then there is medical depression, which although is covered by the mental health departments of hospitals, is in fact a physiological disorder. Clinical depression is in no way just "in the mind", it's not something that can be "gotten over" any more than a broken bone can be. It takes time and the correct forms of treatment to heal depression and other treatable "mental" disorders. They are in no way "psychosomatic" in the derrogitory context of it being some stupid game people play or easily fixed with a jab of reality. If you'd like to argue that, I'm sure you're very welcome to make an appointment with a psychiatrist to ask them, and they'll ablige you with outlines of the physiological conditions behind certain "mental" disorders. Psychological disorders are physiological, only you can't take an asprin and put a bandaid on a psychological disorder, because it's literally in the brain and in the chemicals within in the body. |
I'm not entirely sure about some of this...well, I don't have nearly enough knowledge on the subject to argu. Maybe Enoch could validate this if he's still around  .
Regardless, I underestimated you
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:52 pm
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Luinbariel
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Well, one can take a good look at the medications that are prescribed for varying conditions, such as clinical depression and other similar conditions.
For example, SSRI's, or Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Their function is of a chemical nature; to inhibit the body's ability to reabsorb seratonin. You know what, here's a better description. Seems like I should donate to wikipedia these days... heh.
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messages are passed between two nerve cells via a synapse, a small gap between the cells. The cell that sends the information releases neurotransmitters (of which serotonin is one) into that gap. The neurotransmitters are then recognized by receptors on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell, which upon this stimulation, in turn, relays the signal. About 10% of the neurotransmitters are lost in this process, the other 90% are released from the receptors and taken up again by monoamine transporters into the sending (presynaptic) cell (a process called reuptake).
Some theories link depression to a lack of stimulation of the recipient neuron at a synapse [citation needed]. To stimulate the recipient cell, SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin. As a result, the serotonin stays in the synaptic gap longer than it normally would, and may be recognized again (and again) by the receptors of the recipient cell, stimulating it. |
Anyway, this is just to illustrate that indeed there can be certain forms of depression and related conditions that can't be "gotten over" like ara suggested. Some of them actually require some help, biologically. And, of course, there are versions that are not, as she suggested. Just sharing something that I had a bit of personal experience with, that I thought might help.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:01 pm
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Nanara
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| subspace5000 wrote: |
| Well, you have alot more sense that the site you're trying to defend. I've just had an idea - since you're a Reiki healer, why not post some of your experiences? |
I've been doing Reiki specifically for 5 months and I'm only level one at Reiki (hopefully soon to do level two). I didn't feel particularly experienced to describe what I've witnessed especially because I haven't done any scientific research myself. Though that would be an interesting thing to look into once I get more regular paying clients.
I don't have any scientific evidence regarding Reiki, but there is a bit of anecdotal evidence.
Since I've started Reiki healing, and healing myself, my chronic backpain (caused by a birth defect called spina bifida occulta, and is severe enough for me to qualify as disabled), has gone down a significant amount. Two years ago on a good day I could walk maybe a 100ms before having to rest from the pain, on a bad day I couldn't even walk the 15m to the toilet unaided or even shower myself. Before my Reiki training and atunement I could walk maybe 1km on the flat on a good day, maybe 500m on a bad (that was a lot of progress considering I was told I would probably never walk properly or be mobile again). Now, only five months after the atunement and with weekly treatments on myself, on a good day I can walk 2km, and on a bad about 1km. Aside from the sciatic pain, most of my chronic and severe symptoms have simply gone.
My most recent client has recently had a tumour taken out of her brain. She was having small seisures and terrible migraine headaches. And after a healing, which was, maybe half an hour long, she's so far had no more headaches or seisures. She went back up north 24 hours after the healing, so I don't know any more of her condition. But her family member told me that after the healing was the first time she'd not had a migraine since her operation, and I think it was about month since her op.
One of my first Reiki clients had damaged her hand and wrist. I don't know what the exact injury was, but she was in so much pain she couldn't move her fingers or wrist in anyway. And it was a serious enough condition that she was scheduled for surgery a few weeks later. The next day after a healing she was painfree and able to use her hand. The doctors checked her hand before surgery and had to cancel it because the injury had become manageable. She still has some pain that comes back, but she's a regular client of mine, and as long as we keep up short healing sessions about once a month she remains pain free and with full mobility. I keep recommending that she goes and gets it fixed properly, but unfortunately she's rather phobic of doctors and hospitals. These two clients are free clients of mine btw.
My mother just recently had a collapse due to a kidney infection. The day after her collapse I went to stay with her and look after her while she was healing. I Reiki'ed her at night for a week. After the first night, and only two anti-bot pills, she was walking around with a smile, and saying what a dramatic decrease in pain she was experiencing, she had colour in her face and was very much improved from the day before. Within four days she was almost completely back to normal, BEFORE she finished her anti-bot cycle. Her doctor was very impressed with the speed of her recovery.
| subspace5000 wrote: |
| I realise you might not agree with everything scientists state at the moment, but you actually have to disprove the current theories rather than just ignore them. |
That is a valid point subspace, and I apologise for my bias. I've experienced first had so many things that science says "does not exist" and recieved so much biased blinded argument against those experiences my own frustration can put blinders on me too.
I welcome exploration of things like this, even direct criticism, but it must be constructive for me to take on and listen to. Thank you for your constructive criticism.
| subspace5000 wrote: |
| I'm not entirely sure about some of this...well, I don't have nearly enough knowledge on the subject to argu. Maybe Enoch could validate this if he's still around . |
Lol. I don't know whether he knows what constructive criticism is. He seems more likely to simply state that anyone who thinks this stuff works is an imbecile without any logic or knowledge of science. But anyway, it's not really my purpose to run down someone else even if that someone irritates the crap out of me.
When I get time, maybe Luin and I can tag-team and see if we/I can't find the scientific/biological side of mental health conditions. I'd like to explore more about Reiki, as it's steadily becoming my career. But I think the more scientific stuff on OC the more people can learn both worldviews. Maybe you could post stuff of your own interests as well?
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:03 pm
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subspace5000
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| Nanara wrote: |
Lol. I don't know whether he knows what constructive criticism is. He seems more likely to simply state that anyone who thinks this stuff works is an imbecile without any logic or knowledge of science. But anyway, it's not really my purpose to run down someone else even if that someone irritates the crap out of me. |
Well, I think he's majoring in psychology at the moment (that's what he said, anyway). If so, he is more qualified than I am to verify that last paragraph.
| Quote: |
| When I get time, maybe Luin and I can tag-team and see if we/I can't find the scientific/biological side of mental health conditions. I'd like to explore more about Reiki, as it's steadily becoming my career. But I think the more scientific stuff on OC the more people can learn both worldviews. Maybe you could post stuff of your own interests as well? |
I'll go searching for experiments on reiki at some point, provided that they are sufficiantly reputable ofcourse. In other words, experiments done by reiki websites that don't consider other possiblities aren't sufficiently reliable, and neither are "experiments" written up by people who are biased in the other direction and probably didn't even try the experiment properly.
Unless you want an informative article on the history of video games I think we're better off sticking to your interests though
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:34 pm
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Luinbariel
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| subspace5000 wrote: |
Well, I think he's majoring in psychology at the moment (that's what he said, anyway). If so, he is more qualified than I am to verify that last paragraph.
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Didn't he say he was majoring in philosophy?
Also, why not write articles about what you like, subspace? I wouldn't mind seeing them, and something on the history of video games seems really interesting. I'm sure there's a place for it here, somewhere... we don't have to be all science all the time, right?
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:29 pm
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Nanara
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| Luinbariel wrote: |
| subspace5000 wrote: |
Well, I think he's majoring in psychology at the moment (that's what he said, anyway). If so, he is more qualified than I am to verify that last paragraph.
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Didn't he say he was majoring in philosophy? |
I thought he was doing a double major in philosophy and physics? Lol *shrugs*
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:06 am
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Red_darkness
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I think it was a bit so so to be honest, i know about reiki a bit as a friend of mine has done it, but didn`t go through with it.
I`m not saying reiki doesn`t help at all or anything but indeed that more complex disseases and ailments can`t be just as easily solved by it, thankfully we have some outstanding medicine knowledge in our world, but i know he gave me a demonstration once by flowing the "kosmos" energy in me, it was a powerfull energy in itself i must say as i have felt it first hand, but i doubt indeed that it could heal a broken bone or worse.
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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:36 am
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Shiari
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Reiki is supposed to be used more as a preventative from what I've seen. Eastern medicine is almost entirely that, or treating chronic things.
Western medicine is for emergencies, and life-threatening acute and chronic conditions.
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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:16 pm
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Various Research projects in the effectiveness of Reiki
